'Create Your Own Craetures' Game Idea (interest check)

[Hare]

If anyone takes this idea, let me know! I don't mind. You don't have to give me any info other than that you're doing this. I want to avoid wasting time building it if someone else is going to do the same thing. 

I have an idea for a game that is based around the players being able to create their own species of creatures and breed them.

The game would be developed around the interests of artists and others who enjoy adoptables/virtual pets/animal SIMs. It would not require you to be an artist or ever use the creation feature—it would have other features for gameplay, and there would be plenty of new creatures being created by players for everyone to enjoy, so creation would be more of a foundation for the game than a central gameplay mechanic. 

Is this original enough?
I know Aywas has some similar stuff with players creating new colors, so I'm not sure if this idea is orginal enough to do. It would be more species-creation oriented, though. A creator can make a new species, and allow or disallow others to create new colors for it. Also the breeding would automated (no staff involvement). I would love to see lots of different styles flourish, so the artwork would not be as consistent, but we would have some kind of quality control. 

Copyrighted content?
Not sure how this would be handled. It might get weird if people uploaded pictures of Donald Trump or Pikachu, so we'd have to have some requirements here. You can only upload creatures that you own the copyrights to (or have expressed written permission from the copyright holder/artist who made it). We could have it so the game only gets a license to use the creature (explained in a legal agreement before uploading), so artists retain their copyrights. The creator could remove their species at any time. However, it would not be removed from players who already have the creature. It just wouldn't be distributed anymore (aside from breeding if players already have them). 

Not just anyone can sign up and create...
Of course, we don't want just anyone creating creatures off the bat. Payers would have to progress to a certain point in the game where they gain access to the area where they can create creatures, then they need to have certain items to use the feature. This would be part of the quality control and lore.

Creating
Creators could upload their layers. There'd be a set maximum of layers per creature, maybe 10. 
Each layer would have its own settings such as the ability to change color. Colors could be set with hex values or genetics (see genetics/breeding).
Maybe creators could choose whether or not there are male/female differences, baby stages , eggs, etc. (maybe these are things for later down the line)
You could decide what preset colors/genetics they come in (we'd have preset genetics for basic colors like yellow, green, brown, white etc.).
And of course when you create a creature, you get to decide name and a bunch of other settings. You could decide how/if you want to release it to the pubic, allow or disallow other creators to add new colors, allow or disallow breeding, etc. 

Genetics/Breeding
Each species would have a genotype with a set number of genes. 
Creators could add new alleles to the genes and set their properties (such as being recessive, dominant co-dominant, and how that allele will interact with layers). This could get complicated, so if you're not into genetics stuff, there would be simple preset genetics/colors to work with.

So this is all just really basic ideas. I would love to hear any feedback, and whether this would be of any interest. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Hare

[Digital]

It is a really good idea! I love the premise.

I believe you covered enough to protect the copyrights on the pets, and with a little vetting before new pets go live (say maybe they have to reviewed before going live to other players), you remove the worry of seeing a wild Trump appear.

I like the idea of layers, I already in my mind see the UI being awesome for that. I am a little ponderous on the how the colorization and genetics would work together though?

Great idea for a game @Hare!

[Hare]

18 minutes ago, Digital said:

It is a really good idea! I love the premise.

I believe you covered enough to protect the copyrights on the pets, and with a little vetting before new pets go live (say maybe they have to reviewed before going live to other players), you remove the worry of seeing a wild Trump appear.

I like the idea of layers, I already in my mind see the UI being awesome for that. I am a little ponderous on the how the colorization and genetics would work together though?

Great idea for a game @Hare!

Thank you for the input! That's what I hoped. 

There's a lot of ways the colros could be done with the genetics so I'm not sure which would be best. 

Maybe the creator uploads the layer with the color they want to be the 'natural' version, but the presence of certain alleles in a particular gene can change the color. For example, color of the base is determined by N = natural, ylwylw = yellow, blublu = blue, redred = red, ylwblu = green, ylwred = orange, redblu = purple, etc. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Hare

[Digital]

10 hours ago, Hare said:

Thank you for the input! That's what I hoped. 

There's a lot of ways the colros could be done with the genetics so I'm not sure which would be best. 

Maybe the creator uploads the layer with the color they want to be the 'natural' version, but the presence of certain alleles in a particular gene can change the color. For example, color of the base is determined by N = natural, ylwylw = yellow, blublu = blue, redred = red, ylwblu = green, ylwred = orange, redblu = purple, etc. 

That could definitely make things very cool. I have not really taken too much time in researching anything more then the general concepts of genetics, but now that you clarified it, it makes sense.

[MasterDaye]

This sounds pretty cool.. This idea makes me think of a lil' site called Squiby , where the users can make adoptables for other users to have, but your idea (obviously) has a lot more going for it. 

The [Not just anyone can sign up and create...] part is a bit concerning to me for a site about creation. I dunno, the idea of paywalls like that seem.. unattractive to me.. >~> And you never know about that quality. You could have a player or two who have a lotta money to spend, but not a lotta talent in creating pets. If anything, the breeding feature should have the paywalls. You could have the player decide whether they themselves should draw the offspring (while paying for it), or have an official site artist to draw it for them (and pay more). 

And you can even cash in on mutations (offspring or not).

 

Overall, I really dig this idea (it'll be like a more nuanced Squiby >w<)!

[Hare]

1 hour ago, MasterDaye said:

This sounds pretty cool.. This idea makes me think of a lil' site called Squiby , where the users can make adoptables for other users to have, but your idea (obviously) has a lot more going for it. 

The [Not just anyone can sign up and create...] part is a bit concerning to me for a site about creation. I dunno, the idea of paywalls like that seem.. unattractive to me.. >~> And you never know about that quality. You could have a player or two who have a lotta money to spend, but not a lotta talent in creating pets. If anything, the breeding feature should have the paywalls. You could have the player decide whether they themselves should draw the offspring (while paying for it), or have an official site artist to draw it for them (and pay more). 

And you can even cash in on mutations (offspring or not).

 

Overall, I really dig this idea (it'll be like a more nuanced Squiby >w<)!

OH! I almost forgot about Squibly! I remember seing that site. =o Yeah, that's a bit similar. 

That's a good point about the paywall. Maybe it should be something that is not too much that a casual player could acheive, so not just the richest get to do it. =D But just enough that you should have to have played around on the site for a bit? 

For the breeding, I was thinking the offspring would be the same artwork as the adults, being the same species, so it wouldn't require any staff or artist maintenance to make the offspring. Would that interest you still or do you prefer the artists drawing offspring? Do you think either wau should have a paywall?

 

2 hours ago, Digital said:

That could definitely make things very cool. I have not really taken too much time in researching anything more then the general concepts of genetics, but now that you clarified it, it makes sense.

I'm glad that made sense =o I think genetics are good to have if you have a breeding system to prevent people from getting muddy colors after so many generations. It ensures that the basic color is retained. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Hare

[KingofCrows]

Sounds like a great idea to me, it's a good way for users who cannot do the coding part but still want to be involved in "creation" of a VPS. 

The main way to avoid copyright infringements would be to have a good, decently sized quality control group.

[LuciBeingLuci]

That's a really awesome idea! I'd totally join a site like this as since they're pretty rare nowdays.

But what you said makes it very unique...no "user-creation petsite" actually have a layer system and breeding system.

[Hare]

4 hours ago, KingofCrows said:

Sounds like a great idea to me, it's a good way for users who cannot do the coding part but still want to be involved in "creation" of a VPS. 

The main way to avoid copyright infringements would be to have a good, decently sized quality control group.

Oh yeah! That's a lot of my goal with this. I've seen a lot of artists who want to be involved in it, but the coding is an obstacle. 

31 minutes ago, LuciBeingLuci said:

That's a really awesome idea! I'd totally join a site like this as since they're pretty rare nowdays.

But what you said makes it very unique...no "user-creation petsite" actually have a layer system and breeding system.

Glad to know the idea has enough uniqueness to stand on its own. I know there's some similar sites out there.

[Onyx]

On khimeros we allow people to *order* their own base and then hibbary creates it for them.  For example, they ask for a pegasus or a griffon or a potoo bird or a combination of an iguana and a hyena (yes those are all real examples from the site xD) the base is uploaded to the site as a "platinum custom" meaning that the owner of the base can then color it themselves and create new versions that way.  They can also sell tokens to allow other users to create their own colored versions.  These act like a skin over the existing pet, when you breed you can get either the underlaying custom-demo pet as the offspring, or the overlay, with the overlay being rarer.  This is a popular feature and we've had quite a number of bases ordered, although they are pricey.  One problem we've had with this is that while these are breedable bases, only the original owner of the bases usually feel that they should have the right to breed and sell the overlays >_>  Even though it is against the rules to tell other players that they can't breed a pet once they've bought it from you, this still persists.

We will also be offering the same thing in a custom demo base, meaning that they can order a base with the full set of markings that all of our pets in the custom demo have.  This base will then be available for everyone to preview in the custom demo and to create and breed as regular site pets if they either buy a creation token from the base owner, or buy a gen 2+ pet that someone else has bred, and breed that.  However we're still figuring out a few logistics like the cost and how the creation tokens will be sold, how much control the commissioner of the base has, etc.  The difference here is that with our bases they must still use the same set of markings that all pets in the custom demo have.

So I think basically very similar to your idea EXCEPT that we don't allow the user to physically create their own base, they have to commission the base that they want.  For a site like khimeros this is important as we need to try to keep some kind of consistency at least to the bases themselves, if not to the way they are colored.  I am not sure how a system where users are actually allowed to create the art would go.  It would be a very interesting experiment.  I think it would go a lot better on a new site where this was the policy right from the get-go than to try to add it to an existing site.  I could see a lot of people getting their feelings hurt because their pets weren't popular enough and other users becoming the "elite" because everyone wanted their bases, so I think you'd need to cultivate a userbase who can deal with that right off the bat.  

You'd have to keep in mind that the site would have to host all of these images, the creation system and everything that goes with it, and that you might have a lower income for the site if the site itself is not the one selling special pets etc so yes I think you'd need to charge a fair fee for a user to create their own base.  That is a pretty deluxe feature after all, and in my opinion, not something that anyone can just casually do any time they want even after they reach a certain point in the game.  I know users don't like to hear that things need to cost money, but the reality is that a site owner needs money to keep a site open.  Now if y our site relies 100% on user contributed art, then you could cut back on costs and adjust prices that way, and I think that would be a fun way to do it - have all items on site created by users and have these items able to be picked up in the usual way that you can get items on any given site.  We had hoped to include something like this on khimeros, but it didn't end up happening for a number of reasons.  We do allow users to order custom items but they are owned and sold by the individual user, they don't go out into general circulation as part of the site item rotation.

[MasterDaye]

@Hare

Oh, so you're saying you're thinking about limiting the breeding to a single created species? Like, no hybrids of any different species?

I was actually saying that your breeding system could be like Aywas, where you'd have to get a pretty rare item in order to breed (it may be cheaper if you're breeding two from the same species). Said rare item could be a 'hard to obtain' and a 'pay to obtain' kind of item. 

Unless your ideal site is like Onyx's where consistency is key, then utilizing site-official artists shouldn't be a mandatory thing for users. It's more like an option. Like if a user really wants a super cute kind of offspring and wants it to come from their favorite site artist, they'd have to pay a little bit more (I don't know how) to do so. 

Please tell me if what I said makes sense, or if it's even a good idea. ;;

21 hours ago, Hare said:

That's a good point about the paywall. Maybe it should be something that is not too much that a casual player could acheive, so not just the richest get to do it. =D But just enough that you should have to have played around on the site for a bit? 

I love this idea. That's one of the problems Squiby has, actually: a number of people that actually come back (regularly or occasionally). That idea could definitely keep players comin' back if done correctly, of course. : D

[Boltgreywing]

On 8/11/2017 at 4:12 AM, Hare said:

If anyone takes this idea, let me know! I don't mind. You don't have to give me any info other than that you're doing this. I want to avoid wasting time building it if someone else is going to do the same thing. 

I have an idea for a game that is based around the players being able to create their own species of creatures and breed them.

The game would be developed around the interests of artists and others who enjoy adoptables/virtual pets/animal SIMs. It would not require you to be an artist or ever use the creation feature—it would have other features for gameplay, and there would be plenty of new creatures being created by players for everyone to enjoy, so creation would be more of a foundation for the game than a central gameplay mechanic. 

Is this original enough?
I know Aywas has some similar stuff with players creating new colors, so I'm not sure if this idea is orginal enough to do. It would be more species-creation oriented, though. A creator can make a new species, and allow or disallow others to create new colors for it. Also the breeding would automated (no staff involvement). I would love to see lots of different styles flourish, so the artwork would not be as consistent, but we would have some kind of quality control. 

Copyrighted content?
Not sure how this would be handled. It might get weird if people uploaded pictures of Donald Trump or Pikachu, so we'd have to have some requirements here. You can only upload creatures that you own the copyrights to (or have expressed written permission from the copyright holder/artist who made it). We could have it so the game only gets a license to use the creature (explained in a legal agreement before uploading), so artists retain their copyrights. The creator could remove their species at any time. However, it would not be removed from players who already have the creature. It just wouldn't be distributed anymore (aside from breeding if players already have them). 

Not just anyone can sign up and create...
Of course, we don't want just anyone creating creatures off the bat. Payers would have to progress to a certain point in the game where they gain access to the area where they can create creatures, then they need to have certain items to use the feature. This would be part of the quality control and lore.

Creating
Creators could upload their layers. There'd be a set maximum of layers per creature, maybe 10. 
Each layer would have its own settings such as the ability to change color. Colors could be set with hex values or genetics (see genetics/breeding).
Maybe creators could choose whether or not there are male/female differences, baby stages , eggs, etc. (maybe these are things for later down the line)
You could decide what preset colors/genetics they come in (we'd have preset genetics for basic colors like yellow, green, brown, white etc.).
And of course when you create a creature, you get to decide name and a bunch of other settings. You could decide how/if you want to release it to the pubic, allow or disallow other creators to add new colors, allow or disallow breeding, etc. 

Genetics/Breeding
Each species would have a genotype with a set number of genes. 
Creators could add new alleles to the genes and set their properties (such as being recessive, dominant co-dominant, and how that allele will interact with layers). This could get complicated, so if you're not into genetics stuff, there would be simple preset genetics/colors to work with.

So this is all just really basic ideas. I would love to hear any feedback, and whether this would be of any interest. 

@Hare: Actually my website includes this feature already at least a portion of it. I allow any user to create a pet as long as they are logged in.

[Hare]

On 8/13/2017 at 1:11 AM, Onyx said:

On khimeros we allow people to *order* their own base and then hibbary creates it for them.  For example, they ask for a pegasus or a griffon or a potoo bird or a combination of an iguana and a hyena (yes those are all real examples from the site xD) the base is uploaded to the site as a "platinum custom" meaning that the owner of the base can then color it themselves and create new versions that way.  They can also sell tokens to allow other users to create their own colored versions.  These act like a skin over the existing pet, when you breed you can get either the underlaying custom-demo pet as the offspring, or the overlay, with the overlay being rarer.  This is a popular feature and we've had quite a number of bases ordered, although they are pricey.  One problem we've had with this is that while these are breedable bases, only the original owner of the bases usually feel that they should have the right to breed and sell the overlays >_>  Even though it is against the rules to tell other players that they can't breed a pet once they've bought it from you, this still persists.

We will also be offering the same thing in a custom demo base, meaning that they can order a base with the full set of markings that all of our pets in the custom demo have.  This base will then be available for everyone to preview in the custom demo and to create and breed as regular site pets if they either buy a creation token from the base owner, or buy a gen 2+ pet that someone else has bred, and breed that.  However we're still figuring out a few logistics like the cost and how the creation tokens will be sold, how much control the commissioner of the base has, etc.  The difference here is that with our bases they must still use the same set of markings that all pets in the custom demo have.

Oh! This sounds like an interesting feature, and I can see why it's popular. I can also see why there's an issue with players wanting exclussitivity. I added a customs feature on my current game, which allows you to order new colors (existing colors in the game, but for breeds that don't come in that color). There's been a few times when players were confused and thought they were getting exclussive rights to the color. Anyway, thank you for all of your input, and your site sounds very interesting and fun for artists. =o It is nice to hear that this is being done.

 

On 8/13/2017 at 1:11 AM, Onyx said:

So I think basically very similar to your idea EXCEPT that we don't allow the user to physically create their own base, they have to commission the base that they want.  For a site like khimeros this is important as we need to try to keep some kind of consistency at least to the bases themselves, if not to the way they are colored.  I am not sure how a system where users are actually allowed to create the art would go.  It would be a very interesting experiment.  I think it would go a lot better on a new site where this was the policy right from the get-go than to try to add it to an existing site.  I could see a lot of people getting their feelings hurt because their pets weren't popular enough and other users becoming the "elite" because everyone wanted their bases, so I think you'd need to cultivate a userbase who can deal with that right off the bat.  

You'd have to keep in mind that the site would have to host all of these images, the creation system and everything that goes with it, and that you might have a lower income for the site if the site itself is not the one selling special pets etc so yes I think you'd need to charge a fair fee for a user to create their own base.  That is a pretty deluxe feature after all, and in my opinion, not something that anyone can just casually do any time they want even after they reach a certain point in the game.  I know users don't like to hear that things need to cost money, but the reality is that a site owner needs money to keep a site open.  Now if y our site relies 100% on user contributed art, then you could cut back on costs and adjust prices that way, and I think that would be a fun way to do it - have all items on site created by users and have these items able to be picked up in the usual way that you can get items on any given site.  We had hoped to include something like this on khimeros, but it didn't end up happening for a number of reasons.  We do allow users to order custom items but they are owned and sold by the individual user, they don't go out into general circulation as part of the site item rotation.

Agree that a site where players create their own base would need to be started that way. You would know, as your site already has a playerbase and culture set. These are things I wouldn't have thought of, though. Very good points.

The space and cost issue was something I was concerned about. Yes, this would be a lot of images hosted, and it would need some way to make revenue even with players creating most of the items and pet artwork for the game (cutting out those expenses). I've seen the custom items before I think on Subeta? it's a nice feature. =o

17 hours ago, MasterDaye said:

@Hare

Oh, so you're saying you're thinking about limiting the breeding to a single created species? Like, no hybrids of any different species?

I was actually saying that your breeding system could be like Aywas, where you'd have to get a pretty rare item in order to breed (it may be cheaper if you're breeding two from the same species). Said rare item could be a 'hard to obtain' and a 'pay to obtain' kind of item. 

Unless your ideal site is like Onyx's where consistency is key, then utilizing site-official artists shouldn't be a mandatory thing for users. It's more like an option. Like if a user really wants a super cute kind of offspring and wants it to come from their favorite site artist, they'd have to pay a little bit more (I don't know how) to do so. 

Please tell me if what I said makes sense, or if it's even a good idea. ;;

I love this idea. That's one of the problems Squiby has, actually: a number of people that actually come back (regularly or occasionally). That idea could definitely keep players comin' back if done correctly, of course. : D

Yes, only same species would be able to breed. =o That way it could be automatic, no waiting on staff or extra work involved. I like the Aywas system too, but yeah that's been done already!  We could have both though, and use a manual method for the crossbreeding. Maybe players would pay for that.

Thank you for your input! Yeah I'm thinking this kind of idea could go very wrong or very right depending on how its executed. It will need some careful planning! 

14 hours ago, Boltgreywing said:

@Hare: Actually my website includes this feature already at least a portion of it. I allow any user to create a pet as long as they are logged in.

Sweet! Does it have the layering and breeding too?

Edited August 13, 2017 by Hare

[Boltgreywing]

7 hours ago, Hare said:

Oh! This sounds like an interesting feature, and I can see why it's popular. I can also see why there's an issue with players wanting exclussitivity. I added a customs feature on my current game, which allows you to order new colors (existing colors in the game, but for breeds that don't come in that color). There's been a few times when players were confused and thought they were getting exclussive rights to the color. Anyway, thank you for all of your input, and your site sounds very interesting and fun for artists. =o It is nice to hear that this is being done.

 

Agree that a site where players create their own base would need to be started that way. You would know, as your site already has a playerbase and culture set. These are things I wouldn't have thought of, though. Very good points.

The space and cost issue was something I was concerned about. Yes, this would be a lot of images hosted, and it would need some way to make revenue even with players creating most of the items and pet artwork for the game (cutting out those expenses). I've seen the custom items before I think on Subeta? it's a nice feature. =o

Yes, only same species would be able to breed. =o That way it could be automatic, no waiting on staff or extra work involved. I like the Aywas system too, but yeah that's been done already!  We could have both though, and use a manual method for the crossbreeding. Maybe players would pay for that.

Thank you for your input! Yeah I'm thinking this kind of idea could go very wrong or very right depending on how its executed. It will need some careful planning! 

Sweet! Does it have the layering and breeding too?

@Hare: I don't have breeding and I don't really know exactly what layering is. When a user creates a pet on my site it goes through an approval phase. If the pet is approved then the user receives a small amount of points for its creation and is then automatically made available to everyone on the site. When it has not yet been reviewed only the admin and pet creator can see the pet itself.

If it is denied then the user needs to just edit the content to have it reviewed again. Pet uploading only requires a file of either png, gif, jpeg to be submitted the site itself.