Zrcalo Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) not posting anything adult or discussing particulars.. but what's the feasibility of an adult petsite? So far, me and my friend have thought just to give a warning about signing up and entering, and banhammering anyone who's under 18 there. would extra verification be needed? also how to I circumvent paypal? could I make sfw pets and use paypal with them? or because the site's "adult", would I just be blocked/banned? what's the alternative to use? and how do I prevent customers from doing chargebacks? which has been a huge mega problem lately in the furry community. also a little bit off topic, but I hope to be moving to germany soon... if my business is located in the US, and I live in germany, would I have to do VAT taxes? Edited June 29, 2017 by Zrcalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elm Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 By adult, do you mean to include more mature themes and topics, or go a clearly nsfw route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) completely and utterly nsfw content (legal nsfw content). and it'll only be art. no real pictures allowed. and no babyfurs, cubs, children, or babies. actually I'm thinking about no humans, but that may just be my own personal boundaries. it'll be a collectible pet site, so no npc's, no lore, no stories etc. but I'm thinking pets could have a profile so people could write things and make up their own stuff. people could also upload their own original pet for a fee. much like how flightrising does skins. I talked to a lot of people who were interested in furvilla but had a rude awakening when they went there, so I want to cater to that crowd, and still retain the custom adoptables idea. my idea is to create a site where people could buy/sell/trade their own custom adoptables and use the site as a assets protection. Because furaffinity cant police who owns an adoptable at any given time. If it was uploaded to our site, it would have a username affixed to it and a concrete ownership ID. People could also auction off and sell their original art/adoptable for irl money. but that would be outside the site, like on furaffinity. I'm still working out the logistics, but we'll have our own monthly pets too. basically what I'm after is more legal advice more than anything else. Edited June 30, 2017 by Zrcalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper-Head Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Looks like only some adult physical goods are allowed. Nothing digital: https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/article/what-is-paypal’s-policy-on-transactions-that-involve-sexually-oriented-goods-and-services-faq569 You might get away with it for a while on Paypal, but if they catch wind or someone reports you, the account and money will be locked. It looks like there may be an option through partnering with Epoch but I saw somewhere that it could be over $1k in fees to join? (scroll down just a little if you want to read more on it) https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/About-Payments-Archive/Paypal-Now-OK-With-Adult-Sites/td-p/1006413?profile.language=en This thread lists some alternatives and the challenges or benefits around them: https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/paypal-alternative-for-adult-website.216838/ I don't know to what extent you can loophole things (or if that's safe), but I know toyhou.se allows you to upload nsfw content and they offer Premium accounts (maybe for you, a purchase of that could get you credits for / or free custom pets). However I recently joined and their news today said "The site is back on speaking terms with Paypal" so I couldn't tell you how much that's related. BUT toyhou.se sounds like might be a similar concept to what you're pursuing, so it may work. If you want a hard answer though, you might need to contact paypal. Just be sure it's clearly posed as theoretical. While googling I saw some people who had their accounts frozen just for asking :C As for avoiding chargebacks .... I couldn't find much of anything there. Seems to be a small percentage of success if you call and say they purchased and received an intangible item. I know many petsites list that chargebacks are NOT allowed, and that the account will be banned as a preventative measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) I'm wondering if using square or square cash as a payment method would be viable... so people could use their credit cards. If paypal allows, I'd probably sell the "gem" equivalent on the site or sfw pets in the exclusive store. I wonder if segregating the site into "sfw" and "nsfw" would make paypal a viable option. I think thats how furaffinity gets by with it. or we could just simply be "donate to the site, get a free prize" and then offer tokens/currency for people and use that as a loophole. idk. in that link: "Re: Paypal Now OK With Adult Sites? What would be the problem with say, having a website that simply gives you generic "credits" in return for payment. For example, I go to a website with a fictional address such as credits.com, which has no link to adult material, and I can buy via their PayPal account 5 credits for $5, or 10 credits for $10. Effectively those credits are useless however there may be a different website called xxxdvds.com that just so happens to accept your credits bought over at credits.com as payment. There may even be a sports clothing website that also accepts payment in credits bought from credits.com! What would be the problem with this kind of set-up?" this man is onto something. edit: I've come to a conclusion.... I could create a site where I sell my own handmade goods, and perhaps another site (clone of the nsfw site, but sfw. idea's in the works really) and people can buy credits on there, and on that site they can then use those credits to buy my own handmade goods, or virtual pet currency. It might also help with chargebacks. I was reading wajas ToS, and it stated that anyone who did a chargeback would get their account banned. so we could do that. Though, I like to add any exception to the norm of course. though my other thought is if people used that as money laundering. hm. tl;dr: I guess when all else fails, launder the money. LMAO. Edited July 1, 2017 by Zrcalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I am not aware of any payment services that are mainstream that allow payments for age restricted goods or services. Many allow for physical adult goods (as there is no age restriction on purchasing such items at least in the US), however many do not allow online payments for digital access. This has always been kinda a niche segment of the online world, I am sure there are a few adult based processors out there. I know that CCBill tends to allow adult related payments, but you would have to verify that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 I'll have to check that out then. It's definitely a sticky problem I've run into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Design1online Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 You'll also have to worry about how you keep kids out of there, the ramifications of kids getting into the sure could be really bad business for you. I would tread carefully and consult a lawyer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Design1online said: You'll also have to worry about how you keep kids out of there, the ramifications of kids getting into the sure could be really bad business for you. I would tread carefully and consult a lawyer. I do know that at least here in the US, stating that your site is adult related clearly (using a mature content warning and following RTA and ASACP guidelines). If a minor were to use and enter the site with a false age or ignore the warnings, then legally you are not on the hook since you would not know. Obviously if you become aware of a child on the site, you must block said child. It is rough seas, but if you follow the business models out there, most of them offer trials of a nominal fee ($1 or less) to get in (to verify age), then after charge a set fee. If you cannot use a credit card successfully, you are essentially not allowed in. This would be if you wanted everything behind a paywall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 paywall's and limited registration can kill a site, so not looking at any of those. I think the biggest hurdle would be the paypal bit. I'll try to see what companies offer to adult sites. I know patreon allows adult content, so that's another venue I could check out. But I do want people to use a currency. I'm wondering if I should make a sfw clone of the other site and have the money just be inter-changeable. that might work there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted July 3, 2017 Author Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) update: well I now own "f******furries.com" so I'm going straight to hell with this. Edited July 3, 2017 by Digital Just keeping it semi-clean, we are 13+, however these forums are readable to the general web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koafox Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Authorize.net has more flexible policies than paypal regarding this, it seems (from what I see but please double check me!) their only adult restrictions involves obviously illegal content, video streaming, and certain physical goods. Since I doubt you would have video streaming, they might be a viable option for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Problem is... I've had 3 people contact PayPal about situations like this and all 3 gave different answers. The best way may be to create a separate site where credits could be bought and then used in multiple places such as my site. If I got a lawyer, it'd be to consult with PayPal.. but as it stands, after the information I've got, it's up to the discretion of the person on the phone what to do. Which is unhelpful. The only other thing I can think of is auctioning off sfw pets , but that wouldn't cover the currency to purchase "tokens" to upload your pet. Unless we just sell tokens. Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricaneviolet Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I have no advice on which payment platform to use. I will note though that trying to get around restrictions is risky and could result in your account being closed, and they may even hold your funds, which would obviously be bad. If I were you, I'd do some research on how similar websites get paid, including those selling physical products, and how people in similar industries get paid. Some payment platforms will let you go through them, but charge you bigger fees and up-front fees on those types of sites because of the high rate of chargebacks and fraud in the industry. So you might not be totally out of luck, it'll just kind of suck. On a small site I would NOT recommend processing payments yourself for several reasons, namely security, but I know that's what some people do. As for chargebacks, it's pretty much a risk you're taking by having an online business with virtual goods that some people will try, and a lot of payment platforms will side with the buyer and not the merchant. PayPal is pretty good about siding with the seller, but that doesn't help you since they're not an option for you. I would have a no chargeback policy in my TOS, and if someone does it, ban their accounts. Also, I would make sure that you have a clear no refunds policy and that people are 100% sure what they're getting into before they pay. I think that's really all you can do. It's impossible to eliminate all risk involved with a site. But I wish you the best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 I've dealt with quite a few chargebacks, and me and a colleague have been working with paypal on resolving issues regarding that. Through this I've learned that... 1) paypal does not protect digital goods. 2) paypal does not protect handmade goods (could be "not as described") 3) paypal does not protect commissions. 4) its up to the discretion of the person on the phone what to do. 5) chargebacks can still happen, even if you sell an ebay item and provide tracking. If they decide to go in your favor, you need to wait 72 days. (which sucks) I'm waiting for my friend to upload the photos and post to artist-beware.livejournal.com (he couldnt find a place to upload the files without compression, so I'm telling him to just use my server.) I'll talk to them about digital currency and user uploaded nsfw things. I'm willing to risk a paypal account as long as its separate from my ebay business one, as long as I can document what paypal has said to me. though, what I've read so far with paypal and commissions, it seems like a nightmare. people are commissioning entire fursuits for thousands of dollars, receiving their items, and then filing chargebacks. I think if I ever did high dollar commissions, It'd be through ebay, so I'd have at least SOME protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Design1online Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Another thing to be aware of, not all hosting providers will allow NSFW content on them. If you violate their TOS have the right to cancel your account and delete your content and databases without notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrcalo Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 oh yeah, mine's fine with it. as long as its not illegal content, they dont care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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