RPG-esque online game [dev ramblings]

[Dinocanid]

While working on the sign-up process on Wild Souls, I got to thinking about the flow of the game overall. Here's how the basically goes:

• Standard registration stuff
  
• Choose how you would like to start a game
  
  Pup (easy mode) (free SP cost)
  
  You start in a pack and are able to absorb all sorts of knowledge from the older wolves that teach and protect you.
  
  Great for beginners
  

[*]Adult in pack (normal? mode) (moderate SP cost)

• 
  You start in a pack, but you immediately have to take on the tasks of being a subordinate rank. Not so good for beginners, since slipping up too much could lead to you getting expelled from the pack and becoming a loner.
  
  You can read the documentation, but the other wolves expect you to know your smarts already.
  

[*]Adult loner (hard mode) (high SP cost)

• 
  You start with nobody else to help care for you, which means you need to find food and shelter all on your own.
  
  You need to know your stuff to survive like this.
  

[*]Blahblahblah play the game. Forge friendships, hunt, live, etc.

[*]Eventually die, either of old age or getting unlucky and dying early. Then...rinse and repeat.

You accumulate "Spirit Points" (or SP) throughout your life and at the end you get to spend them on perks, markings, colors, etc. that you can use in the next one. Users who get special codes can have enough SP at sign-up to pick any difficulty from the start.

The one thing with this system is that you're basically "soft resetting" each time you die. Kind of like a New Game+. You're only upgrading yourself. Your pack and any wolves you knew remain in the world, but they no longer know you since well, you're a new person essentially. This also means that if your wolf has pups and they start a new game, you are no longer related to them unless you spend SP to play as one of them.

Wild Souls does have real-time elements, and users can spend a long time with one wolf if they're careful and healthy (still planning the timescale, 1 day = 1 month atm), but that would make it that much harder to let go and start new when you're basically resetting your progress to move up the ladder with stronger, more capable wolves. It can also be rage-inducing, since I can see people getting upset if they up and die from an injury, starvation, illness, battle, whathaveyou; but you can't please everyone I guess.

Any feedback on this general setup? What are some things you think would work, or what needs to be improved?

 

[Design1online]

I guess what I don't understand is you are playing as one wolf or multiple wolves? If you're upgrading yourself but then you die does that mean all your work is lost or do things carry over when you create a new wolf? Also, what if you die and have no SP? How do you make a new wolf then and what earns you SP?

 

[Dinocanid]

You play as only one wolf at a time. When you die you lose any relationships and milestones you had, but your stats and SP-bought markings/colors carry over. If you happen to die and not have any points (or not enough points for other modes), then you have to start as a pup (easy mode) again, since that's the only mode with no SP cost.

I'm still deciding on exactly what things earn you SP. At the moment, my current plan is that you earn 5 SP every 3 days (3 in-game months). Completing milestones can reward you a certain amount too; like maybe 50 SP for your first litter, but only your first.

 

[Ouli]

It sounds great!
I'm more of a fan of games that don't hold your hand. The cycle of reincarnation, if I may call it that is so cool!
Each death is no complete loss but you have to let go of your past life.

Not many games are like this. I think it's unique and it could be like a breath of fresh air. Many pet or sim games follow standards. Luckily It's been changing over the years. I see more and more new features pop up. Standards are broken and this genre is evolving.

Edit:
Just found your game listed here on TGL and read about its features.

 

• Character Customization
  
• Living NPCs that make their own decisions
  
• Shared packs. Users will usually have to work as a team.
  
• Dynamic Ecosystem
  
• RPG elements
  
• Special Events
  
• Watch stories unfold, as things can change at any time!
  
  Users are no longer just at the mercy of each other, but also at the mercy of the NPCs and harsh mother nature.
  

That is all just so cool!
Shared packs! Working as a team! OMG!
Teamwork is so important for wolves yet I see a lot of games out there where players are more like lone wolves all the time. Definatly looking forward to see how this would play out in game.
Also, npc's leading their own life makes the world so much more immersive.
Keep it up!

 

[Design1online]

So I will tell you from my experience that getting members to work as a team is really difficult. I have a similar feature in my horse game and what happens is everyone creates multiple accounts and plays all the different povs. So you will end up with people creating their own packs. Just an FYI.

 

[Dinocanid]

So I will tell you from my experience that getting members to work as a team is really difficult. I have a similar feature in my horse game and what happens is everyone creates multiple accounts and plays all the different povs. So you will end up with people creating their own packs. Just an FYI.

I realize, but there will be measure to prevent this; like preventing the creation of more than one account with the same IP.

 

[Design1online]

Heh, good luck with that. Banning by IP address will not stop people from creating multiple accounts but you'll learn that the hard way ;-)

 

[Digital]

So I will tell you from my experience that getting members to work as a team is really difficult. I have a similar feature in my horse game and what happens is everyone creates multiple accounts and plays all the different povs. So you will end up with people creating their own packs. Just an FYI.

I guess the argument (and this is strictly game d sign and theory) is whether or not those people are able to do better playing all sides versus a group of people working together.

It isn’t so much trying to stop people from that play style but offering advantages to group cooperation.

 

[Design1online]

I guess the argument (and this is strictly game d sign and theory) is whether or not those people are able to do better playing all sides versus a group of people working together.

It isn’t so much trying to stop people from that play style but offering advantages to group cooperation.

They said they were limiting accounts though. That means they want to discourage the multiple accounts. Also, I'm not sure what competitive advantage you'd have from different people playing as each wolf versus having all the accounts you run yourself. One of the reasons people make all the accounts themselves on my game is because they can't get people online and coordinating things as quickly since people sign off or go awol for days at a time. Then it becomes easier for them to do it themselves.

 

[Ouli]

I think limiting accounts can still help. Sure some people may work around it but it will prevent some at least. The only drawback could be when siblings want to play together. So simply monitoring might be an alternative if you want to allow people living under the same roof to all be able to play.

I like the idea of offering advantages to people working together.
I'm sure there are different ways to implement that. Maybe one thing that could work is to give bonus SP if two or more people work together on something at the same time, like battling and enemy together.

 

 

[Digital]

Also, I'm not sure what competitive advantage you'd have from different people playing as each wolf versus having all the accounts you run yourself.

Assuming there is an economy, a single user cannot amass nearly enough resources efficiently to be able to provide any wide advantage. A group can gather more then a single person. It's one reason why we are communal creatures by nature.

One of the reasons people make all the accounts themselves on my game is because they can't get people online and coordinating things as quickly since people sign off or go awol for days at a time. Then it becomes easier for them to do it themselves.

There is this, which I can totally agree on players doing it themselves if the game's community/activity is too little to provide enough players. The nice thing about the idea behind this game is that some packs (especially the ones you join at the start) have some NPC based wolves to help.

 

[Digital]

I like the idea of offering advantages to people working together.
I'm sure there are different ways to implement that. Maybe one thing that could work is to give bonus SP if two or more people work together on something at the same time, like battling and enemy together.

This would be one potential benefit from teamwork. As I mentioned, there is an economical. Usually the teams that can gather the most will usually have the greatest growth and advantage in most other aspects of a game.

 

[Design1online]

Assuming there is an economy, a single user cannot amass nearly enough resources efficiently to be able to provide any wide advantage. A group can gather more then a single person. It's one reason why we are communal creatures by nature.

There is this, which I can totally agree on players doing it themselves if the game's community/activity is too little to provide enough players. The nice thing about the idea behind this game is that some packs (especially the ones you join at the start) have some NPC based wolves to help.

Sure, that's true. However that's not what I have experienced in sim games. They are too turn and click based to really get to that level of teamwork. On the other hand, an MMO where they are all online and visible at the same time seems to work better at developing that kind of community and team based gameplay.

 

[Dinocanid]

A lot of posts overnight o.o I'll try to get to them.

I think limiting accounts can still help. Sure some people may work around it but it will prevent some at least. The only drawback could be when siblings want to play together. So simply monitoring might be an alternative if you want to allow people living under the same roof to all be able to play.

I like the idea of offering advantages to people working together.
I'm sure there are different ways to implement that. Maybe one thing that could work is to give bonus SP if two or more people work together on something at the same time, like battling and enemy together.

 

Monitoring might be better in this case, since I remember having this problem once when my sister used to play pet/sim games; especially if there was only 1 computer in the house.

Sure, that's true. However that's not what I have experienced in sim games. They are too turn and click based to really get to that level of teamwork. On the other hand, an MMO where they are all online and visible at the same time seems to work better at developing that kind of community and team based gameplay.

 I can see the divide there too. Getting people to work together on something turn-based and spaced out (I forget the exact number, but it's only so many turns every few hours) vs an MMO where it's all live is much more difficult to achieve.

About the multiple accounts (by the same user) thing, there will be people who manage to make multiple accounts, but another way to discourage it is to make it hard for users to do it efficiently and still be successful at the game. Let's say someone makes 1 wolf for each rank and makes their own pack. It would be easier to spot and shut down since your IP is recorded each time you sign up, and 5+ wolves in the same pack with the same IP is a red flag.

If a user makes 2 wolves and starts their own pack by having pups, it would be harder to track. They could be two people in the same house or one person. At the same time, the user is controlling 2 wolves who don't have enough leverage if they're attacked by a large group (be it another pack or angry gerbils).

For  pack that's made entirely of different users, it wouldn't be that much different from a guild; which is a feature present in other VPS/sim games. It's optional and not required to play the game, but it's there if you want to play with others.

There might be some points I forgot to address, since I'm on mobile.

 

[Design1online]

About the multiple accounts (by the same user) thing, there will be people who manage to make multiple accounts, but another way to discourage it is to make it hard for users to do it efficiently and still be successful at the game. Let's say someone makes 1 wolf for each rank and makes their own pack. It would be easier to spot and shut down since your IP is recorded each time you sign up, and 5+ wolves in the same pack with the same IP is a red flag.

That's assuming that users won't share accounts or give out their login info. If you ban by IP address that way you could have the same problem where someone is logging into their friend's accounts to take care of their wolves if they're on vacation or if they want to play while the friend is away. It happens a lot on my games where multiple accounts will have the same IP address because they form partnerships or have different packs they want to play, etc. Also, siblings on 2 different computers in the same house will not have different IP addresses if they're going through the same router. Just things to keep in mind as you progress in your development.