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Nate

Gender inequality *TRIGGERED*

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This is specifically discussing men and women. This discussion is not about Apache Helicopters, or any other gender people identify as (Triggered much ;-) ) [Its a joke in the controversial forum].

 

I am constantly seeing in the media, on TV, on the internet and in social situations that men and women are not equal. 

 

Why do you think this is?

Edited by Nate.Tube
After review, I decided to remove some info that was a little too personal
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Simple: Because men and women are different.

But as far as inequalities go, the inequalities I've seen and experienced are not the ones that they harp about on TV and in the media. 

I don't buy that there's still a wage gap, and I've seen how disadvantaged some young boys and young men are nowadays and it breaks my heart. 

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On 4/20/2017 at 11:30 AM, Syntax said:

Simple: Because men and women are different.

But I think the point is as a whole they are treated differently, and depending on the debate it causes issues to both genders.

You have a form of thought that leans towards women being absolutely equal, but the debate tends to fall apart when it comes to the actual differences that arise such as childbirth. In many areas woman have to choose children or career. Is this fair?

To a males viewpoint, you have women who enter the workforce and are often seen as having the ultimate power over male coworkers through the use of sexual harassment (here in the US, most companies will fire anyone who has claims against them without actually investigating the situation.) Reading comments here, you can see how there are cases where women have perhaps (depending on viewpoint) used the current law to gain advantage over male coworkers. I myself have seen this used against coworkers on a few occasions, particularly when I worked in a toxic work environment that favored championship over teamwork. I had to walk a fine line or face false allegations simply because I was in the way for someone else's advancement.

To be honest, there is an inequality, but that inequality is due to a system of laws that scare businesses away from actually investigating claims. Legally protection exists to both, socially this skewed towards males being seen as the ultimate aggressors. You cannot expect equality without compromise on both sides, and an understanding that there are no "safety nets" for either side.

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So at the basis, inequality exists, but it exists more from hardwired social perceptions that have powered lawmakers into forming environments that keep it alive and well. I do not believe it is as bad as it is stated, and I believe it can destroy lives on both sides. Maybe overtime society will reach an enlightenment and stop trying to cater to individual sections of society.

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Sorry, yes I was being overly simple about it. I've heard way more on this topic then I ever wanted to because only 10-20% of software engineers are female and everyone's convinced there's some conspiracy and I was congratulated for overcoming a world of male dominance and road blocks designed to push me towards a kitchen instead of a computer. -_- I've taken to just being annoyed every time it's brought up. 

Legally speaking men and women are considered equal, if anything women tend to get more rights/benefits when you bring kids and healthcare into the mix. Being in the computer science field, being an avid video-gamer, DnD player, I've always tended to run in circles that were for whatever reason mostly male. This hasn't ever bothered me, and throughout my entire life I've never been systematically targeted because I happen to be a different gender. If anything, running in those circles I've had a lot more problems with other girls than with any of the guys because suddenly there's a girl at what was assumed to be a guys night based on the activity. 

 

31 minutes ago, Digital said:

In many areas woman have to choose children or career. Is this fair?

Fair to the woman or the children? It used to be that for the most part families could do well enough on a single salary, women didn't need to work. Now that women work, it seems uncommon to see single-income households and while I'm sure many women love what they do (as do I) I wonder how many would prefer to drop to part time or stay home with children completely but can't because their household needs both of the incomes to pay the bills. 

I'm not sure what changed, if what's considered a middle-income lifestyle has become more expensive or if salaries just haven't kept up over the years but there's been a definite shift from women can work if they want, to now women are expected to work and bring home a salary and at least in the universities the idea of a stay-at-home mom is looked down upon like they're not living up to their full potential.

As far as choosing career or children, even I struggle with that decision because I think it's desirable to have a parent dedicated to the kids but I do love what I do. I don't think I would continue working full time after having kids, although I'd probably find it hard to not work at all. I am deeply grateful to my mother for walking away from the workforce to raise and homeschool my sister and I and I attribute a lot of success in my life to my mother's dedication to us. I most certainly don't want to shame anyone with kids who works but I do sometimes wish it was more like the 60's when women working was more of an option and less necessary. 

25 minutes ago, Digital said:

To a males viewpoint, you have women who enter the workforce and are often seen as having the ultimate power over male coworkers through the use of sexual harassment (here in the US, most companies will fire anyone who has claims against them without actually investigating the situation.)

This is awful. I've been in hostile work environments, but putting a sexual harassment claim on anyone should be a big deal because you're messing with someone's life and livelihood and with what's considered sexual harassment these days it's seems like you can land in hot water for just looking at someone wrong. 

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14 minutes ago, Syntax said:

This is awful. I've been in hostile work environments, but putting a sexual harassment claim on anyone should be a big deal because you're messing with someone's life and livelihood and with what's considered sexual harassment these days it's seems like you can land in hot water for just looking at someone wrong. 

As mentioned, it was a toxic environment where the only goal was your own advancement. In that perspective, the idea of holding back didn't really exist. There was no such thing as being honest for even fair, there was only advancement because that is all management cared about. The idea that it was easy to make a false claim to get ahead made it very attractive.

After the first dismissal due to non-existent sexual harassment (the claim was made as being in front of half the office, management never asked anyone else if it happened, just immediately dismissed the employee it was against), there were several other events following it, all with newer employed females against male coworkers and all the male coworkers were more senior, but in these cases they were never a superior to an underling type of situation. Most of the time neither worked together, in one case neither had been as even spoken to each other. It was used as a way to open up (in this case content editor) positions as leads.

The development team, which at the time I lead, was far more settled and removed, but it was quite the mess in the content dept. - and to my knowledge still is.

I obviously found a far better environment following because I wasn't about to remotely deal with that, and the toxicity was taxing and not what I wanted. Luckily those who were dismissed due to such were able to land on their feet, and did well considering it happened. Here is the states, the safeguard is that a company cannot legally disclose the existence of such claims to any prospective employer. The only way it becomes bad is should it be brought into the courts.

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To be honest, this has been fought over since like... the dawn of humanity pretty much >.<

In my opinion, humans are indecisive creatures. In the past, the woman's movement originally started shortly after the men returned home after WW2 and women were losing the jobs they were holding up while the men were away. So, women were dropped back and paid far less than half of what the average man would pay. Thus, women demanded equal pay for doing the same amount of work, which then brought up other unequal things, such as women weren't allowed to receive the same benefits, or women weren't allowed to play the same sports and so on so forth. As some point, basically to prove a point, women wanted to be so independent from man that they began to demand things like, "I don't want you to open the door for me" or "don't pay for my meal, I pay for my own" and so on and so forth. 

Women got what we asked for in most cases. 

Today however, the role, in my opinion, appears to be reversed. Women now seem to be realizing that being treated and respected like a woman wasn't actually all that bad, so now women are demanding that respect back. They're saying things like, "why don't you hold that door open for me anymore?" or "Why don't you treat me out once in awhile" and so on and so forth. 

In my personal opinion, I still think there are some things that differ between man and woman, but most of it appears to be in business, not so much outside of work. Outside of work, to me, majority of the human population seems to have lost the respect I grew up on and people appear more paranoid than ever. Not that I can blame humanity with all that is happening and all the threats that go one nation to nation and country to country. 

However, as a woman myself, I have been laid witness to that if we do not "act like a man" so to speak, it is actually harder to get a job. I've applied for numerous jobs in the past and have been, more than once, dumped for a man who had the near or exact same qualifications as I. Of course there could be other things involved, but in some cases, I know I dressed the part and made an effort where he wore jeans and t-shirt and barely spoke 2 sentences toward the interviewer. 

So, to sum this up, Yes, I do still think women are being taken advantage of and seen on a lower level than man in various things. Not in all aspects of life, but there is still evidence that the word of a woman is not the same as a man's word. 

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there is no wage gap.
There is a hiring gap, and a pay gap, but that has to do with the jobs selected. 
the sexes are different biologically, and typically a female prefers social jobs over manual labor. 
Manual labor pays more than social jobs, and another factor is maternity leave and family. It makes sense for the higher paid spouse to continue working while the lower paid spouse to spend more time raising the children. Typically the lower paid spouse is the woman, irregardless of degrees. (degrees do not guarantee jobs or high paying jobs, contrary to what people think).

There will always be a pay gap. Mostly because the more dangerous a job is, the more it pays. People oftentimes view office workers and corporations as the backdrop for pay inequality, when thats not the case. the biggest gap is between careers. while being an office worker for a corporation, a woman is MORE LIKELY TO SUCCEED and even be hired! but because of the gross amount of pay difference in all jobs, it appears that women are not paid more. 

I'll have to get a bunch of the statistics, but its really interesting. 

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There are definitely differences and inequalities, but it's very complicated and varied. 

The biggest thing I notice is that people focus a lot on gender, think in terms of gender, and this is the root of many problems. Like the common misunderstanding that feminism is about women and that women's issues are disonnected from men's. In reality, women's and men's issues are often one and the same. 

For example: in family law, sometimes judges may be biased to assume that the moms should get custody of kids simply because they are women, thus causing fathers to lose custody in divorce cases. This negatively impacts men, but stems from the bias that assumes women are all naturally suited to be mothers and that is their rightful role in society. 

There are many other situations like that. Unfortunately it's just human nature to want to label and categorize others.

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@HareThat happened to my cousin in the custody battle for his child whom he dearly loves. His wife was a complete bitch about the entire matter, demanding full custody, and got it...cause she's the mother, and isn't letting him see his child. He's doing his best to fight back to keep his relationship with his son alive, but with full custody, there's not a lot to be done.

I feel fortunate my parents had a relatively amicable divorce, and despite that my mother also got full custody, she at least realized I still needed my father in my life, and just because she didn't love him anymore, didn't mean that I shouldn't see him. Sadly, I think that's not necessarily the norm, as, let's be honest, women kinda tend to be spiteful (unlike guys who just punch each other and then everything's ok, women hold a grudge forever), and I've seen other split family's where the mother uses the children to hurt to divorced husband (it was truly awful, the mother was a drug addict had committed petty crimes, didn't show up to court and STILL got full custody). The law system is definitely rigged against men for family court, I've seen it all too much.

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14 hours ago, Solistia said:

@HareThat happened to my cousin in the custody battle for his child whom he dearly loves. His wife was a complete bitch about the entire matter, demanding full custody, and got it...cause she's the mother, and isn't letting him see his child. He's doing his best to fight back to keep his relationship with his son alive, but with full custody, there's not a lot to be done.

I feel fortunate my parents had a relatively amicable divorce, and despite that my mother also got full custody, she at least realized I still needed my father in my life, and just because she didn't love him anymore, didn't mean that I shouldn't see him. Sadly, I think that's not necessarily the norm, as, let's be honest, women kinda tend to be spiteful (unlike guys who just punch each other and then everything's ok, women hold a grudge forever), and I've seen other split family's where the mother uses the children to hurt to divorced husband (it was truly awful, the mother was a drug addict had committed petty crimes, didn't show up to court and STILL got full custody). The law system is definitely rigged against men for family court, I've seen it all too much.

This is sad, yeah I hear about this a lot. Where I was from, there were a couple judges with a reputation of giving custody to Mom despite evidence that she wasn’t providing adequate care for kids. I watched a lot of male clients lose their kids to women who were just so spiteful. They’d throw their own kids under the bus without batting an eye. Sometimes even the kids didn’t want to be around Mom and they’d tell you just how nutty she is, yet Dad is lucky if he gets weekends.  Sometimes I think they knew they could get away it because of society’s inclination to assume that women are better parents.

Even outside court I see men fackng this problem taking their kids out in public. They’re met with suspicion or their parental status isn’t taken seriously just on the basis of gender.

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