PocketPumaPets (P3)

[TonyWatkinsArt]

Hey all,
Long time no see (on the forum at least haha). Unfortunately, I'm here on my old account to give a negative experience I've had.

NOTES: I'm "FlameoHotman", yes, this account is Jwatkinsart when I used to go by my middle name online. All updated art profiles are TonyWatkinsArt (insta/twitter) for lack of confusion (... can I change my name here somehow? )

I posted work of a lion on the TGL Discord server and was put in contact with PhantomFire of PocketPumaPets (which I'll call P3 going forward from here).

We discussed his needs and price and settled on the price for a base. 
For note, my ToS states that for orders under $75USD, I must be paid in full. This was under $75USD and was not a long-term contract.

PhantomFire told me he wanted to deviate from the current style of the site and into something more realistic. I told him I'd be happy to help with that and did 2 good-faith sketches shown here: https://sta.sh/03g54ut22jw
He followed up by sending me this image, stating that it was done in 2018 by an artist who "disappeared".
 

He then proceeded to tell me that the sketches I'd sent were good, but asked that I make the head bigger, the body "chunkier". I said I was surprised because initially I'd had the mouth open, but was concerned that it could interfere with items in the future, to which he told me that items are "cut to fit" the base, not the other way around.
I said I'd be happy to do this, but that since he liked the sketches and we were getting into actual work I'd need the payment down before making changes.
He then told me to "take my time" and disappeared for about a week. I chalked it up to being the holiday season and reached back out to check in. This is where things went down hill.
PhantomFire then stated that he would not be willing to pay me until the image was finished. He then claimed that the base needed to fit the style of the sketch he'd provided (above), that the items wouldn't fit on my sketch, and that he wouldn't be willing to pay even half without me continuing to work.

I told him I don't make exceptions to my ToS without long-term contracts, and that I'd already given him two good-faith sketches. 
He followed this up by telling me that I'd said I couldn't make the changes, and that he would not be willing to pay.

Guys, this was all super sus the whole way through. He repeatedly told me about artists who had "disappeared", and then tried to guilt me into working on this without payment because he'd "never had a problem with artists before". 
I've worked with a handful of you on here, so I think you all know the amount of pride I take in my work and professionalism. I'm willing to go an extra mile if needed, but there were so many red flags. 

I've attached parts of the convo below for you to view as well (I won't be sending the whole thing because at one point he starts to tell me quite a bit about his family as he's telling me he's refusing payment).

Be wary, friends.

TL;DR - insulting, calling cleaned sketches "rough", making excuses for why he won't pay me that completely contradict the original statements before I said I needed payment to continue, ends with stating that I've somewhere said I'm not able to make the changes he's requesting, which is 100% untrue. Be wary.

[bat]

Wow, that's horrible. Thanks for the heads up here.

[P3Games]

I am Very sorry but I totally misunderstood part of our conversation going forward. I apologized and tried to explain WHAT has happened. This was not out of malice it was because I misunderstood part of the conversation. I am sorry you felt we couldnt work thru this and instead posted this here.  

[P3Games]

For the record I've worked with a number of artists and coders and never had any problems. If something needed to be discussed we did. Evidently, in your world apologies and a sincere  offer to  try to resolve a problem means nothing and instead you post this. And BTW the "artist who disappeared"  who made that sketch is in fact our art director. Shes been with us since 2010. 
If you reread what was said you will see I said SHE ( the art director) passed it to someone who disappeared. The circumstances of that were not due to the site. She ( the artist)  got married and  decided she had no more time to work on art. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by P3Games

[TonyWatkinsArt]

Just now, P3Games said:

For the record I've worked with a number of artists and coders and never had any problems. If something needed to be discussed we did. Evidently, in your world apologies and a sincere  offer to  try to resolve a problem means nothing and instead you post this. 

1. You told Judda I was "getting threatening".
2. Your "apology" came with no offer of resolution. Just "I didn't see this".
3. There are still numerous red flags and contradictions throughout our conversation.

I generally try to work with my clients through difficulties and misunderstandings, but there comes a point where it's not a misunderstanding. You literally tried to manipulate me into working without payment by telling me how you pay artists more than they ask, and very suddenly told me about family issues you were having when I asked for payment.

I made this warning at the recommendation of others on staff. The warning is public so that other artists can see this experience and make up their own mind about if they would like to work with P3 in the future.

Please don't act like I didn't try to resolve this. I have screenshots of me trying to resolve it and you telling me your "bottom line", insulting the quality of my work, and repeatedly lying to me. 

[TonyWatkinsArt]

For reference; I'm finished with this person and the situation. If anyone needs additional screenshots or logs I have the full conversation. I won't have my own image twisted as one of a person who doesn't try to bend. 
My payment for orders under $75USD is full, he refused and stated he wouldn't even negotiate on paying half down. 

I tried.

[P3Games]

"Guys, this was all super sus the whole way through. He repeatedly told me about artists who had "disappeared", and then tried to guilt me into working on this without payment because he'd "never had a problem with artists before". 
I've worked with a handful of you on here, so I think you all know the amount of pride I take in my work and professionalism. I'm willing to go an extra mile if needed, but there were so many red flags. 

I've attached parts of the convo below for you to view as well (I won't be sending the whole thing because at one point he starts to tell me quite a bit about his family as he's telling me he's refusing payment)."
--------------------------------------
I NEVER told you I refused to pay,  I had absolutely NO problem with paying for something we commissioned. 
i never tried to "guilt you" I said we were hiring because we lost a lot of artists in 2020.  covid, school, marriage. one went to  hawaii to join a protest movement and stopped working...
all i asked for was a clearer sketch. I misunderstood  what you said by thinking is was payment once we APPROVED the final sketch, NOT the finished work.