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Verpets : Demotion without Pay.

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Hey guys!
I'm new to this so please excuse it being quite a mess! I am in a very confused and concerned mentality at this time due to this being quite sudden and without warning or even communication.

For over a year, as of August 10th, I have been working for Verpets.com as an Official Artist and... while the work was slow, low paying, and communication was very poor, I enjoyed the job. I enjoyed speaking to the other artists there and get to be a big part of what happens behind the scenes. As someone who has visited and partook in the site since late 2009, being able to give back was a big dream come true for me!

But... As per stated... Projects were rare to come out. I created an item that the sites programmer, Carl, asked to be revised and I was more than happy to do so! I would send him questions that pertained to the revision and... he ignored them. So I simply held on stand by for some weeks without communication on his end. He would arrive to the site daily, post to the sites Shoutbox, claim to be occupied with coding... then disappear until the next day.

After waiting for so long I simply moved on with my provided topic and I came up with a pretty nifty item idea that I thought it best to consult Carl about! Once again, ignored! So I simply submitted that after waiting some days for his activity to return to "Vercomm" as the site refers to the direct message system. The art and plenty of the submissions prior sat there... however, there were some pieces that were accepted and I forgot to set up my paypal with the sites admin, Exile.
At one point I saw it too busy to worry about, having had a steady stable 8-5 job I didn't see any fuss in rushing over funds!

So more time progressed... and the lack of projects, lack of care for the site, and sheer laziness came to a point with plenty of the users in Verpets. One going as far as to bring these claims up and I accompanied the user! Highlighting the issues such as the clear inability to properly care for the rotting site out of sheer laziness on Carls side, however I worded that far more carefully and caringly due to the fact I wanted to talk, not fight. Those messages were deleted. That is when conversation turned to requesting we, the prior mentioned user and I, speak to the site owner who goes by Joe. Carl created a "Vercomm" and took us in privately to talk.
This only seemed to bring us to a brick wall.

Carl Proved to be incapable of mature conversation.

In the uploaded images I simply provided our exchange. 
TOPIC WARNING. - Pedophilia , abuse.

In those images you will find the entire exchange that Carl did not delete. As per seen, at no point did I fly off of the handle and make a scene. The entire exchange I made sure I did all I could to remain poise and professional, as this was more than some user to user issue as Carl would be considered my superior on a professional level and I handle my pet site assistance such as art as business-savvy as I can. 

Carl was confronted on issues such as accused pedophilia on his behalf. Nightcrawler having had people come to her and tell her about the awful things Carl asked minor users for in the past, she held a heavy stance on demanding answers and the owners help due to those very serious issues. My stance, clearly shown, was withdrawn but at this point willing to speak in part for Nightcrawlers defense simply due to the serious issue that is a potential pedophile helping run a pet site.

An issue I mentioned was him harboring dangerous users, one per mentioned who nearly everyone still active on the site has had very negative experiences with. This user only stays around on the site pretending to be someone they are not due to wanting to "keep tabs" on users who quite honestly just want the toxicity and mental abuse to seize. Carl knows fully well that user is not who they claim to be, and rather than punishing them accordingly with the site rules he simply revokes that users rights permanently such as item and pet trading. Out of concern for my peers and future users, I brought this up due to the awful nature of that user... One that has been banned on multiple occasions prior for just generally being bad people.

My third point was simply that of honesty. It was made verbally clear that Carl is very unmotivated. Verpets suffers greatly from the lack of proper technical care and update. Anything mentioned of wanting to fix things or update them is met with hesitancy or a complete scene. These issues were made a private but more open manner after a point of breaking in patience with those working with him closely. After this point Carl would proceed to refuse all care to the site and basically hold it hostage by him and the owner keeping it up but not fixing it or adding to it. Rendering it without any events aside from the automatic news spamming events!

None of my points or positions were off the handle, none of them were wild claims or back handed attacks... I simply wished for some sort of communication due to the fact these issues existed and Carl would rather sweep it under the rug and pretend don't exist. Rather than communicating with me he ignored me and the "Vercomm" he had created as well as quietly disabled Nightcrawlers account without identifying it like a normal ban would appear. 
Privately he would speak to the moderator of the site... Those screenshots I also have provided!
He vented about his health issues effecting his work, which is understandable... but claimed the job of Programmer to a Pet Site was untenable due to the sites being primarily female? Because suddenly the personal choices that he, in another screenshot, claims to of forgotten was to be blamed on the female populace of a suffering site dying at the hands of it's own owner and programmer.
The issue died down after Ferbie so gracefully defused the situation.

After about a month and 5 days I discovered today that he demoted me back to a basic user... and without any communication per usual. Verpets has yet to pay me properly VIA paypal for my accepted item pieces... I am absolutely devastated that a site that I've spent the last 11 years on, interacting with, and growing up with could become such an awful place. I have sent Carl a private message about my demotion, but I have about had it.
Verpets owes me compensation for my time and effort inevitably to fade into the void that is refusal for care by it's very own programmer, also provided in the uploaded images.

I'm not sure where to go from here. A dear friend suggested I take my issues up here! So... here I am!



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I can't really add much to this other than to say that the exact same thing happened to me when I quit years and years ago, I didn't get paid and I'd put money on it that you won't either. 

Edited because I'm cynical as all hell, but I hope you can at least get what you are owed. ?

Edited by CynicalRaptor
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That's absolutely inexcusable. No matter the manner of demotion or situation, our art should be compensated for properly and the fact this has happened more than once is worrying. Not so much on the pay side but professionally that looks awful on paper for anyone interested in the supposed sale of the site...

Which might I add is also in limbo? Just as is the site?

Either way, I'm trying to explore proper options along with communicating with some people on this issue... I overall just do not know what to do...

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Because Joe has disappeared. According to Carl, Joe has given them full control of the site. Carl hires. Carl fires. Carl decides if a new feature gets created and Carl decides if things just completely stop.

Carl is essentially the head of the site. According to them they were going to buy Ver from Joe because Joe wants nothing to do with it. Nobody has seen Joe for years. They came back briefly to appoint two new admin who came with a lot of promises and then left.

I know it sounds like a bunch of whinging users who dont understand that coding and art takes time and money, but I promise you that isnt the case. Every user on Ver wants things to go back to how it was. Users have offered their services as writers and artists for free. Staff were underpaid even when they were being paid. I've been on the site for a decade and most if not all active users and users who return often to check in have been around for just as long. We've been through highs and lows. Half of us have had beef with one another and moved on like a weird family with weird family drama because we share a space that we love. That includes Carl. People have been incredibly supportive of Carl's efforts and offered ideas and support at his request up until the last month.

The recent allegations against him soliciting users in return for favors has everyone on edge... because pet sites are typically seen as a place for younger people and because it comes against the person with arguably the most power on site, a person we all trusted. It also explains a lot of weirdness that you would only know about if you were there. Its that sort of thing that at the time you can make yourself ignore it even if your brain calls attention to the weirdness of the situation, but in hindsight really makes a lot of sense.

Even the recent shadowban kind of points to wanting to sweep something under the rug. Like... why would you not just suspend someone or send them a warning? Why go into the code of the site to make it so that user cant access anything but their account appears totally normal for everyone without even talking to other staff and admin? 

And sure, maybe it's entirely just a bad call. But that makes this post by Blondie all the more important. Would you not want to be warned about someone who doesnt pay their employees? Or pays them in virtual currency? Or pays some artists for alternate items but tells others that the site doesnt pay for alternates? How about someone who fires without ever contacting the employee? Or keeps their art on site in limbo without paying or telling them they can take it elsewhere? How about still accepting purchase for an item costing special currency but not wanting to upkeep the purpose of that item allowing it to become useless while not refunding users or taking the item out of the shop?

Because forget Joe, Joe is gone according to Carl (we only have his word and Joe's absense to back this up. We have no proof that the things Carl says Joe says is what is true). Carl is in charge of all of this. Carl is head admin and they're the one who is making all of these absolutely horrendous decisions that potential staff members need to look out for because it's predatory business that relies on staff NOT sharing experiences with one another. 

We all love this site. We want it to have a ressurgance. Once or twice a year old users flock back en masse to see whats going on and see old friends. If Ver magically gained new life I'm sure it's loyal fanbase would give it what is probably it's fourth or fifth chance to keep their attention... but at this point it's languishing in death. Until recently Carl would get on, ask in the shoutbox for ideas and then maybe dangle potential new features in front of our faces while half the site is broken. Our games still run on flash. The halloween point counter has been up in the corner for the entire year and the halloween unlockable enemy has been in the coli this whole time and it was a month or two last year AFTER Halloween that we were even allowed to spend those points. Even events which could be automated just dont happen. So Carl is willing to ask for ideas and talk about things thag are "definitely" going to happen, but... not do anything about these easy fixes? We didnt complain about any of this. We were patient and understanding. We have always been patient and understanding with the nonsense for some reason. Heck, even after all of this users are still willing to be patient and understanding. We would love to talk to Joe. Some of us even talked about pooling money together to buy Ver because Joe has been trying to sell it for years but Carl wont give us a pricetag.

We have to trust Carl to forward our concerns... so what do we do when our concerns are ABOUT Carl? It's like having complaints about your Boss and no HR or higher up to go to. 

Even now, half of the users are terrified of saying anything even on here to support Blondie because maybe it could lead to a shadowban and that makes total sense because even in the past I wrote a negative review calling out the weirdness in staff and broken features and allegedly certain admin told staff members and users to try and bully me off of the site. I was explicitly told by someone that I had been put on a list and staff were looking for a reason to ban me. 

The only reason I'm here speaking up right know is because I think this sort of thing needs to be brought to the attention of people within this tight knit, small circle of creators... and because I spent hours backing up all my stuff. I have ten years and hundreds of dollars in this site. I've made best friends for life and experiences that have helped shape me into the person I am today. Ver came into my life when I really needed it. I dont say any of this lightly. I dont want to lose it all, but the longer I sit here and hear everyone talk along with what I've experienced on site, the more I wish someone would either buy it and do something ANYTHING or that the site would just stop existing. 

Joe is a huge reason this has gone so wtong and so many people have left with terrible experiences. He was greedy about the price when people were interested and has left us in the hands of someone who should never have been given a public position of unchecked power. But Joe isnt here and Carl has been the one making decisions for years. Trust me, we blame Joe for quite a lot too but cant complain to someone who wont say anything or show their face.

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You're owed $7 and would be paid as soon as you had asked to be - we can't send it without your Paypal email, please send it to us. That's the same for anyone else claiming to be owed something, we never have and never would deny payment owed.

You're right about one thing, neither me nor Joe are bothered by what happens on the site. If someone wants to buy it then get in touch with an offer. We've both moved on and my real job comes before anything online, I'm not sure why I'm expected to put Verpets before the things that keep food on the table. The real world doesn't work like that.

No one has or will be banned for speaking out, but they will be for spamming the site and going against the T's and C's.

The rest is nonsense thats completely untrue and just as before I'm not going to reply to it.

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Untrue? There's screenshot evidence now of what you have asked of users. Asking for inappropriate photos is not nonsense and untrue when the screenshots exist now...

As for the amount owed, it is still owed and I will contact someone other than yourself in regards to it at this point. You have done nothing but lie to us and prey on users in your "drunken hazes".
As an update he has demoted Exile despite her actively visiting the site and assisting with issues!

I have already gotten in contact with someone a touch higher up so hopefully something can be done about it.

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As a quick update regarding everything, since posting last Carl has proceeded to wipe all of his verpets direct messages in such a way that no one can see them any more... As far as we know, not a single user has a single direct message with Carl or Carl + company thus far surviving this act and further proves Carl is a danger to this site and potentially even the minors that decide to create an account here.

He believed there was no surviving evidence, however, in which several users have clips and snips of messages and interactions. On top of MULTIPLE screenshot evidence of him preying on our members on several occasions during his supposed "drunken" states of mind...

He has also set his account back nearly 2 years so it appears to be offline for 1 year and 303 days...
While this is not some witch hunt, this is a warning to beware of this user in any setting as even on a child-based pet site he will prey on women as well as belittle their genders and claim it steers their decision making. Please do not use this as a reason to harass Carl, but please beware and cautious when dealing with him on any level.

Edited by Blondie
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3 hours ago, Blondie said:


Rather than apologizing or stopping he's taken the time to change his offline status to this.

At this point you are just perpetuating the drama. It seems like you got what you wanted? Agreed to pay the owed $7 and is stepping away from the game. 



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I don't believe I made my message clear enough... this is far more than my initial seeking justice for being demotion without compensation. As it has started as that, there has been an extreme turn of events that followed a previous issue shown above as well... This is not about users complaining about lack of care for a site any further, this is not about lack of pay... This is about predatory behavior and leaving a warning due to the fact this is a Children based website... This is a dangerous situation.

I am not seeking to stoke any flame or in your words "perpetuating the drama" as I have seen screenshots first hand of this predatory behavior towards female users on the site, this is not some pointless blame game or a site set to turn on who owns it or runs it... this is a legitimate issue of a grown man going into women's private messaging systems and asking for inappropriate photos on several occasions... Apologizing only to do it again and again... Women he worked with... Women who were simple users without any big game title. Women who asked him to stop only for him to continue on with the excuse of intoxication.

This is me leaving a paper trail at this point. This is not seeking unwanted attention, it is standing up for the women he has harassed and dogged for inappropriate photos... It is alerting wonderful people such as yourself who run these gorgeous sites populace to minors and people of all walks of life to be careful of this programmer / site owner. I am but a simple artist... but I stand hard for what is right and what is wrong, and to not say anything to set a warning for those who may potentially work with this man is entirely against my nature seeing the damage he has done.
He has tried to covered his tracks, unaware there are many with screenshots... I will leave this at that... but please consider this as more than what it started. 

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